As someone who was T-boned at high speed a year ago, I am all for ways to reduce red-light running. That said, my issues with photo and video "enforcement" in all cases is they do nothing to prevent the crime from occurring. The person who hit me was already injured and had totalled their car, so a $300+ ticket was probably not the biggest thought on their mind. The cameras can act as witness only.

In a more serious example, while it may be vindicating to capture a killer who shot a store clerk, the video camera itself can do nothing to prevent the killing in the first place. Conviction of the criminal is small solace to a family who has had someone killed.

Criminals don't seem to be deterred at all by video cameras these days, as can be seen in news footage where their faces are seen clearly. The deterrent value, if any was there initially, has been lost.

While a $365 ticket might deter some people, it does nothing for those who are driving under the influence or simply out of touch when they are driving. They will pay the fine, or perhaps even just ignore the ticket, without a second thought.

Theres a new camera installed on the corner of Main and Griffin in the LA County Hospital area. Yesterday, I was making a right turn on a red light and the camera flashed. Theres no sign restricting me from making the right on a red. Anyway, I hope I dont get a ticket for that. If so, I will definitely have to contest it.

You're missing some stuff.

1) The price point is what makes it a shakedown; about a day's pay for your average schmoe making $50K a year, it's about the maximum you can charge without cluttering the courts with people willing to fight the tickets.

2) Wait until you get one of these tickets for being stranded halfway through an intersection trying to turn left on a green light that turns yellow and then maybe (or maybe not) red.

3) Count how many yellow lights that flip to red you cautiously drift through on any given day for which cops would never ticket you but godless machines certainly will.

4) What a courageous post, defending a practice right out of 1984 as government "transparency", then retracting a bit of it because some setups don't have as many cameras installed as you'd like to see.

I would like to clarify some points some commenters made.

Yellow Lights:
There is no such thing as running a yellow light. Yellow lights really don't exist. There is green and red. Yellow is simply a warning that it is going to turn red soon. Yellow does not mean slow down or speed the hell up. It is simply a communication.

That said, being stuck in an intersection is tricky business, but not that tricky. If you are already past the limit line while it is green or yellow, you have not run a red. Law states that drivers and pedestrians must let the intersection clear before they start driving through their green. So if you are on a left turn and it was dangerous to turn left until opposing traffic got the red, then that's cool. You should never get a ticket for that, EVER.

Now if you entered the intersection and are causing gridlock, meaning you are not clearing the intersection anytime soon, then you are breaking the state's anti-gridlock laws and should have been paying more attention to what's ahead of you (meaning looking further than just the car immediately in front of you) It's not illegal to tailgate, but it's just common sense.

"Criminals," Habits and Price
Yeah, the price is high and not pretty or easy or fun. But Government is stepping it up and saying we are done with this shit. Generally speaking, it's not that hard to not run a red light.

Specifically, we actually run red lights and stop signs 99% of the time. Anytime we casually stop and our cars goes over that limit line, we are actually running that red/stop. But that's really hard to gage from the driver's seat. But no cop or camera is going to bust you for going over for a few inches or a foot unless they are being a complete jerk.

But back to "generally speaking", it's not that hard to not run a red light. Stop driving aggressively, stop driving overly passively and not paying attention.

To Mr. Welch (comment #2), I loved your comment and I do agree that this will not stop criminals and people who are drunk. But I do not consider the aggressive driver who bends the law with reds a criminal in that sense. We can bring out the statistics here, but we know they will show the positive light of how well enforcement cameras work. When I worked at City Hall in Santa Clarita where most crashes looked nastier than I ever have seen on LA streets, we put up photo enforcement cams. From that time until I left the job a year and a half later, to my knowledge, the worst intersections in Santa Clarita never had a crash.

I love Charlotte Joko Beck's saying, "Enjoy Traffic." Chill out, you'll get there. If you don't like your daily commute, maybe you should move closer to work, take the bus, fight or work with city hall and the MTA to make things better or something.

The Vendors Approve the Tickets
Now, that is sort of true. The vendors offer a service of delivering the tickets to police by weeding out the non-violation pictures. But that is not an approval. And as Richard (comment #5) said, it goes to an officer who then approves and cites the offender. So maybe San Diego does these bulk approvals, does that mean the LAPD does? I know for a fact that LASD does not because I've been standing over their shoulder while they do that. And I'm sure if you really want, you can schedule an appointment with the LAPD and see the process yourself.

Right Turn on a Red
Ernesto (comment #4), the sensors kick on with X amount of speed against a red light, I think usually 8mph. But if you legally made your right turn, you shouldn't get a ticket. Just because it flashed doesn't mean you broke the law, you just triggered the device because it is told to do so. But if you do get a ticket, write over an e-mail, I'm happy to take a look at it.

Snitch Tickets
If you do want to fight them, head over to Highway Robbery. Despite its crappy design, it's a great resource on the opposing view and about snitch tickets. While government has the right to try to get you to snitch, you have the right to remain silent.

"But no cop or camera is going to bust you for going over for a few inches or a foot unless they are being a complete jerk."

That is EXACTLY what is happening. People complain about getting a ticket for "running the yellow" because they are ticketed for entering an intersection 0.3 or 0.4 seconds after the light turns red. Click my name to see the facts on how many bogus tickets go out. It's imperceptible to the human eye (in fact, one intersection had an old style incandescent bulb on a traffic light in the center lane, then a newer, faster LED unit on the side. A guy got a red light camera ticket photo in the mail that showed the LED "red" while the incandescent was still yellow!)

That also proves that "sheriff review" is B.S. The standard is not you seeing them click on the tickets while you're watching over the shoulder, the standard is -- how many garbage tickets get mailed out? The answer is, a lot. A few jurisdictions may actually decide to do their due diligence, but does it make a difference if they don't do it well? For the record, court cases show most cities do bulk approval.

The city council in San Diego actually just lowered its ticketing threshold to 0.1. Is that really going to "save the children", or is it going to bring in tons of cash? Hint: it does bring in tons of cash. San Diego cameras NEVER saved a single life -- but the city's statistics showed cameras were a good thing.

The truth was, they made intersection improvements at certain camera locations, e.g. increased yellow times *by court order, not willingly*. At those intersections, and those intersections only, accidents went down. But the city lumped these locations in with camera intersections that had no improvements (and lots more accidents) to claim "our program works!"

It was a lie that only became known after a major court case allowed discovery of original documents. San Diego's police chief then admitted on national TV that the camera program increased accidents: "And it's true in a few intersections we found a few more accidents than prior to the red light photo enforcement. At some intersections we saw no change at all, and at several intersections we actually saw an increase in traffic accidents." (That's precisely what the evidence at trial forced the chief to admit)

Josh has a great point, and that's another reason to despise these red light cameras. I take Sunset Blvd on my commute, and encounter at least three of them each way. My job is on the Strip, otherwise I would take a different route. I have never received a ticket, but I find myself slamming on my brakes to avoid going through the intersection too late. That is probably far more dangerous than running the red by HALF A SECOND.

nancy wrote:

"I find myself slamming on my brakes to avoid going through the intersection too late. That is probably far more dangerous than running the red by HALF A SECOND."

what're you an idiot? how is running the red less dangerous? people already speed through those lights as if they don't exist so a little enforcement is great. not like it matters anyway cuz i still see the damn things flashing when genius' like yourself go barreling through as other cars start out into the intersection. yes... much safer indeed. how 'bout you just drive less like a maniac and realize you're not the only one that would like to get where they need to go... preferably in one piece.

I pass at least 3 red light cameras on the way to work each morning. I have never blown a red light camera or received a ticket in the mail.

Quit whining and change the way you drive. This is not a shakedown. And the fact that some people here question how "slamming the brakes instead of running a red" can save lives, you must be stoned solid. I as well as probably everyone else reading this have friends who were sent to the ER because they were T-boned. Not to mention my mother suffers a permanent condition in her thigh from being T-boned when she was a teenager.

Whether by some voodoo magic it counts the last "0.4 seconds of a yellow" as red when you enter the intersection or not, you pretty much squeezed the lemon on that one anyway and you know what you did was questionable.

The author of this article makes a good case. Either realize that these cameras DO save lives, or else find an alternate mode of transportation.

A friend of mine received one of those photo tickets in the mail, but there was a hitch. She's a twin and she and her sister weren't sure which one of them it was because each one used the car that afternoon. I think they ended up splitting the cost of the ticket.